Discussions such as these make my WIS heart hasten with nerd-like delight. Real conversation/debate. A bit of history. A bit of contemporary. A nod to the WIS greats of old. This has the makings of an epic post.
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So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?
Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?
It has been a good discussion, by many passionate people, hasn't it? It should be, though, because most enthusiasts will have an opinion on this very important, some might say "bread and butter," segment of the marketplace. And we have some of the most savvy enthusiasts here — people who've "graduated" from some of the other more general forums.KtownGreg wrote:Discussions such as these make my WIS heart hasten with nerd-like delight. Real conversation/debate. A bit of history. A bit of contemporary. A nod to the WIS greats of old. This has the makings of an epic post.
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I, and I'm sure many others, hope to see more members chime in here.
Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?
------------lorsban wrote:My point was that if the new ingenieur had a jlc or similar movement, I wouldn't mind the $6k+ price. And there are good watches in the $6k range with in house movements.craniotes wrote:Please allow me to echo that sentiment...Dixan wrote:Not sure if serious.lorsban wrote:If they used movements from JLC, Piguet, Jaquet Droz etc..., I wouldn't mind the high price as much.
For this, I'd pay up to $3500 to max $4000. Which I doubt. 2nd hand, $2500-3000.
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You'd be paying A LOT more than your maximum of $4K for a watch using any of those movements.
ETA has its place, and while the price may seem high for the watch that started this discussion, it would be quite a bit higher if it used an in-house movement or one from F. Piguet, JLC or JD (does JD even sell movements?).
Regards,
Adam
But since it has an eta 2892, I would only be willing to pay up to $4000 for it.
(I think I remember my friend saying his Graham had a jaquet movement. I'll check.)
Not that I think the 2892 is a crappy movement. My old superocean had one and ran great. Heck, my Ball diver had one too I think. I just wouldn't pay that much more for it.
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I guess you wouldn't be willing to pay 8K for a UN Maxi Marine Diver...from what I understand, a rebuilt 2892 probably similar to what IWC gets...
It's really a no win situation for the buyer....With Swatch in control ETA movements will continue to be priced at a premium. If the Watch Co goes in-house the price goes through the roof (see IWC, Breitling, Omega, Jean Richard, etc)...
It will be very interesting to see what happens with the pre-owned market...
Excellent thread...
Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?
I'd like to echo the sentiments about this being a great thread. Learning a lot, so thanks guys!
I think it really comes down to what you're looking for and, of course, what you can afford. If I had the funds, I'd be checking out a lot of the top end brands like PP, AP, and VC.
However, barring a lottery win, that's not going to happen. For me, Rolex hits all the right buttons. Indestructible case, no frills, accurate in house movement that keeps going and going, and history (yes, I admit to sipping from the Kool-Aid fountain - I've long stopped trying to fool myself into thinking that marketing and cache had absolutely nothing to do with my choice, although I like to think there's more to it than that).
That said, I can also see paying a premium for a watch from a well-known company that uses an ETA movement. You know you're getting a great watch that will run extremely well. Again, it just depends on what you're looking for. I also can't fault anyone for wanting a more exclusive movement if that's what pushes your buttons. As I said, if I had the money, that's certainly where I would be looking.
I think it really comes down to what you're looking for and, of course, what you can afford. If I had the funds, I'd be checking out a lot of the top end brands like PP, AP, and VC.
However, barring a lottery win, that's not going to happen. For me, Rolex hits all the right buttons. Indestructible case, no frills, accurate in house movement that keeps going and going, and history (yes, I admit to sipping from the Kool-Aid fountain - I've long stopped trying to fool myself into thinking that marketing and cache had absolutely nothing to do with my choice, although I like to think there's more to it than that).
That said, I can also see paying a premium for a watch from a well-known company that uses an ETA movement. You know you're getting a great watch that will run extremely well. Again, it just depends on what you're looking for. I also can't fault anyone for wanting a more exclusive movement if that's what pushes your buttons. As I said, if I had the money, that's certainly where I would be looking.
Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?
Mike at the South Coast IWC Boutique mentioned to me that the next gen AT might be going back to an internal bezel, but no confirmation; should be interesting to see where IWC goes with it!jimyritz wrote:============craniotes wrote:Yes, the Aquatimer is up next.
My only fear is that if they go in-house the price is going to get really stupid.
Regards,
Adam
No kidding, any ideas what they will look like?
As for the new Inges, a few of them are pretty nice, but they all seem to lack a certain "character" that the older models had; I'd take a 3227-01 over any of the new ones.
Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?
=========HR F1 wrote:Mike at the South Coast IWC Boutique mentioned to me that the next gen AT might be going back to an internal bezel, but no confirmation; should be interesting to see where IWC goes with it!jimyritz wrote:============craniotes wrote:Yes, the Aquatimer is up next.
My only fear is that if they go in-house the price is going to get really stupid.
Regards,
Adam
No kidding, any ideas what they will look like?
As for the new Inges, a few of them are pretty nice, but they all seem to lack a certain "character" that the older models had; I'd take a 3227-01 over any of the new ones.
Thanks Jerry....I look forward to seeing that AT...
Mike
Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?
Didn't know the Maxi Marine had an eta. But yes 8k is too high.jimyritz wrote:------------lorsban wrote:My point was that if the new ingenieur had a jlc or similar movement, I wouldn't mind the $6k+ price. And there are good watches in the $6k range with in house movements.craniotes wrote:Please allow me to echo that sentiment...Dixan wrote:Not sure if serious.lorsban wrote:If they used movements from JLC, Piguet, Jaquet Droz etc..., I wouldn't mind the high price as much.
For this, I'd pay up to $3500 to max $4000. Which I doubt. 2nd hand, $2500-3000.
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You'd be paying A LOT more than your maximum of $4K for a watch using any of those movements.
ETA has its place, and while the price may seem high for the watch that started this discussion, it would be quite a bit higher if it used an in-house movement or one from F. Piguet, JLC or JD (does JD even sell movements?).
Regards,
Adam
But since it has an eta 2892, I would only be willing to pay up to $4000 for it.
(I think I remember my friend saying his Graham had a jaquet movement. I'll check.)
Not that I think the 2892 is a crappy movement. My old superocean had one and ran great. Heck, my Ball diver had one too I think. I just wouldn't pay that much more for it.
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I guess you wouldn't be willing to pay 8K for a UN Maxi Marine Diver...from what I understand, a rebuilt 2892 probably similar to what IWC gets...
It's really a no win situation for the buyer....With Swatch in control ETA movements will continue to be priced at a premium. If the Watch Co goes in-house the price goes through the roof (see IWC, Breitling, Omega, Jean Richard, etc)...
It will be very interesting to see what happens with the pre-owned market...
Excellent thread...
At $6500 there are a lot of watches available.
Rolex Datejust, Explorer 1 and 2, Airking. Calibre de Cartier. IWC Ingenieur AMG. JLC Master Ultra Thin, Reverso Grande Taille Mechanical. Omega PO/AT 8500. Loads of Zenith. And the list goes on...
Most of these come under $6k by the way based on jomashop and prestigetime - which means Hongkong prices aren't far.
So, for me, it's more what else is available at that price and usually past $5000 there are already a ton of great iconic watches out there. If you don't mind 2nd hand, the list gets way bigger.
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Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?
==========lorsban wrote:Didn't know the Maxi Marine had an eta. But yes 8k is too high.jimyritz wrote:------------lorsban wrote:My point was that if the new ingenieur had a jlc or similar movement, I wouldn't mind the $6k+ price. And there are good watches in the $6k range with in house movements.craniotes wrote:Please allow me to echo that sentiment...Dixan wrote:Not sure if serious.lorsban wrote:If they used movements from JLC, Piguet, Jaquet Droz etc..., I wouldn't mind the high price as much.
For this, I'd pay up to $3500 to max $4000. Which I doubt. 2nd hand, $2500-3000.
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You'd be paying A LOT more than your maximum of $4K for a watch using any of those movements.
ETA has its place, and while the price may seem high for the watch that started this discussion, it would be quite a bit higher if it used an in-house movement or one from F. Piguet, JLC or JD (does JD even sell movements?).
Regards,
Adam
But since it has an eta 2892, I would only be willing to pay up to $4000 for it.
(I think I remember my friend saying his Graham had a jaquet movement. I'll check.)
Not that I think the 2892 is a crappy movement. My old superocean had one and ran great. Heck, my Ball diver had one too I think. I just wouldn't pay that much more for it.
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I guess you wouldn't be willing to pay 8K for a UN Maxi Marine Diver...from what I understand, a rebuilt 2892 probably similar to what IWC gets...
It's really a no win situation for the buyer....With Swatch in control ETA movements will continue to be priced at a premium. If the Watch Co goes in-house the price goes through the roof (see IWC, Breitling, Omega, Jean Richard, etc)...
It will be very interesting to see what happens with the pre-owned market...
Excellent thread...
At $6500 there are a lot of watches available.
Rolex Datejust, Explorer 1 and 2, Airking. Calibre de Cartier. IWC Ingenieur AMG. JLC Master Ultra Thin, Reverso Grande Taille Mechanical. Omega PO/AT 8500. Loads of Zenith. And the list goes on...
Most of these come under $6k by the way based on jomashop and prestigetime - which means Hongkong prices aren't far.
So, for me, it's more what else is available at that price and usually past $5000 there are already a ton of great iconic watches out there. If you don't mind 2nd hand, the list gets way bigger.
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Sure, in the end it comes down to personal taste and what's available. I was basing my comments on MSRP not gray mkt....Personally, I would buy pre-owned before I bought from jomashop....Just my .02...
Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?
Yeah, me neither. I just use these online sites to establish price-ranges - so I know how low to go. Some HK/Singapore AD's have prices near there. Sometimes lower even (depending on the watch).
Sure, in the end it comes down to personal taste and what's available. I was basing my comments on MSRP not gray mkt....Personally, I would buy pre-owned before I bought from jomashop....Just my .02...
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Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?
Thing is with luxury watches is that, essentially, they're jewelry for men. If they were really tools, per se, we'd just stick to quartz and GShocks - far cheaper watches that are more accurate, reliable and more functional.
That said, I will use this analogy: eta = moissanite, in-house = diamonds. Moissanite is a mineral that look like diamonds and are in fact more brilliant. Moissanite is far cheaper as well. Looks wise, the regular person can hardly tell the difference. But for those who know, ask them and they would rather go for diamonds.
In other words, it's not a performance thing, it's not an aesthetics thing, it's a prestige thing. We can argue all up and down on eta but the fact is they will always be less prestigious than in-house. It's only in the rare case of Panerai where the reverse can be true.
In a practical sense, this prestige has a direct correlation with value, more specifically resale value. No problem if you will keep your watch forever, but if you're like most people, your tastes will change and so will your watches. And when that happens, you want watches that retain value.
Just my opinion, of course
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That said, I will use this analogy: eta = moissanite, in-house = diamonds. Moissanite is a mineral that look like diamonds and are in fact more brilliant. Moissanite is far cheaper as well. Looks wise, the regular person can hardly tell the difference. But for those who know, ask them and they would rather go for diamonds.
In other words, it's not a performance thing, it's not an aesthetics thing, it's a prestige thing. We can argue all up and down on eta but the fact is they will always be less prestigious than in-house. It's only in the rare case of Panerai where the reverse can be true.
In a practical sense, this prestige has a direct correlation with value, more specifically resale value. No problem if you will keep your watch forever, but if you're like most people, your tastes will change and so will your watches. And when that happens, you want watches that retain value.
Just my opinion, of course
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