Interesting perspective on the status of the US Navy

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HapaHapa
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Re: Interesting perspective on the status of the US Navy

Post by HapaHapa » Tue May 10, 2022 6:43 am

Ryeguy wrote:
Tue May 10, 2022 4:40 am
HapaHapa wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 8:39 pm
deepcdvr wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 7:46 pm
No sweat Dave - good luck with your case!

After the ship accidents the Navy changed the watch rotations at sea and new schedules seem to ensure Sailors are getting more sleep. Is it perfect? No - but it’s something we take seriously. As far as training, I think we’re the best in the business - we don’t just train to be “watchstanders”.

Yes the Navy investigates the Navy, but as a guy that has been on the receiving end of a few investigations and eventually on teams that conduct them, I can assure you they are thorough, fact finding and often brutal. I could list a dozen investigations off the top of my head in which those involved lost careers or ended up in jail… I believe we relieve a dozen or more commanding officers every year - some years up to 30 - for example.
Is that in of itself an issue, or is a dozen a negligible fraction?
I was curious about this myself so did a little Google-Fu research.

I’m assuming we’re only looking at O-6’s and O-7’s, there are about 3,300 of them.

Now, not all O-6’s are in a “command” position (whether that be a vessel or a facility). Many are likely in administration positions at various bases. There also could some O-5’s who are actually in a “command” position. Bottom line is the actual number is kind of hard to nail down using rank alone.

Between ships and bases in the US Navy, we are looking at maybe 600 (each having a “commander”. I think this might be a more reasonable number to use versus number of people of rank.

As of April, the USN has relieved 4 officers of command, but not all were for errors they personally caused. One guy got dinged because he was going to turn a captured AK-47 into a plaque for his ship (which seems like a good idea to me, but apparently is frowned upon by Navy leadership).

While a 20% attrition rate seems high, I also consider the Navy perspective that the commander is responsible for the actions of their crew. A dud officer under your command could sink your career.

@ Paul- one blog I read stated there were actually more O-6’s in the Navy than Master Chief’s! It kinda makes you wonder why they get the good parking spots at the NEX.
Let's say these are 600 businesses and factories that your corporation manages. You fire 12 of 600 plant managers / operations managers a year. That's 2%. Bad year you fire 30, or 5%. Both seem high to me. I'd say training for management needs to improve.
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Ryeguy
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Re: Interesting perspective on the status of the US Navy

Post by Ryeguy » Tue May 10, 2022 7:36 am

HapaHapa wrote:
Tue May 10, 2022 6:43 am
Ryeguy wrote:
Tue May 10, 2022 4:40 am
HapaHapa wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 8:39 pm
deepcdvr wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 7:46 pm
No sweat Dave - good luck with your case!

After the ship accidents the Navy changed the watch rotations at sea and new schedules seem to ensure Sailors are getting more sleep. Is it perfect? No - but it’s something we take seriously. As far as training, I think we’re the best in the business - we don’t just train to be “watchstanders”.

Yes the Navy investigates the Navy, but as a guy that has been on the receiving end of a few investigations and eventually on teams that conduct them, I can assure you they are thorough, fact finding and often brutal. I could list a dozen investigations off the top of my head in which those involved lost careers or ended up in jail… I believe we relieve a dozen or more commanding officers every year - some years up to 30 - for example.
Is that in of itself an issue, or is a dozen a negligible fraction?
I was curious about this myself so did a little Google-Fu research.

I’m assuming we’re only looking at O-6’s and O-7’s, there are about 3,300 of them.

Now, not all O-6’s are in a “command” position (whether that be a vessel or a facility). Many are likely in administration positions at various bases. There also could some O-5’s who are actually in a “command” position. Bottom line is the actual number is kind of hard to nail down using rank alone.

Between ships and bases in the US Navy, we are looking at maybe 600 (each having a “commander”. I think this might be a more reasonable number to use versus number of people of rank.

As of April, the USN has relieved 4 officers of command, but not all were for errors they personally caused. One guy got dinged because he was going to turn a captured AK-47 into a plaque for his ship (which seems like a good idea to me, but apparently is frowned upon by Navy leadership).

While a 20% attrition rate seems high, I also consider the Navy perspective that the commander is responsible for the actions of their crew. A dud officer under your command could sink your career.

@ Paul- one blog I read stated there were actually more O-6’s in the Navy than Master Chief’s! It kinda makes you wonder why they get the good parking spots at the NEX.
Let's say these are 600 businesses and factories that your corporation manages. You fire 12 of 600 plant managers / operations managers a year. That's 2%. Bad year you fire 30, or 5%. Both seem high to me. I'd say training for management needs to improve.
Yeah, I should know better than to do math before having a cup of coffee. 2% average attrition rate.

I think the difference between military command and business management is the level of accountability.

Obviously, a military commander has more authority over their subordinates than a business manager has over their employees, but the commander is also held to a higher degree of responsibility when a subordinate messes up and causes an issue.

I'm all in favor of increased training for our military, but I'm also in favor of maintaining the higher expectations for military leadership. I'll accept the higher attrition rate as a byproduct of maintaining those standards.

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r.palace
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Re: Interesting perspective on the status of the US Navy

Post by r.palace » Tue May 10, 2022 8:18 am

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