4Runner? GX? Land Cruiser?

[dukerules]

I’ll give these hybrids 5 or so years. If they’re good past 100k miles in these applications, I will be very interested in an LC. Not the same as my UZJ100 was but honestly a better daily very likely. The GX is just another class honestly and I have deep want. But I think many are going to miss the days of $40K 4 Runners that would last forever. A great value proposition in retrospect.

[dnslater]

I’ll give these hybrids 5 or so years. If they’re good past 100k miles in these applications, I will be very interested in an LC. Not the same as my UZJ100 was but honestly a better daily very likely. The GX is just another class honestly and I have deep want. But I think many are going to miss the days of $40K 4 Runners that would last forever. A great value proposition in retrospect.

I’m sure they will be fine. The Prius has been out for 25 years now and they are very reliable. Toyota knows trucks and hybrids well so I don’t see any issues.

[Ryeguy]

I’ll give these hybrids 5 or so years. If they’re good past 100k miles in these applications, I will be very interested in an LC. Not the same as my UZJ100 was but honestly a better daily very likely. The GX is just another class honestly and I have deep want. But I think many are going to miss the days of $40K 4 Runners that would last forever. A great value proposition in retrospect.

I’m sure they will be fine. The Prius has been out for 25 years now and they are very reliable. Toyota knows trucks and hybrids well so I don’t see any issues.

I know it is a little bit of a necro-bump, but I agree. Toyota has a well-established history in developing reliable hybrid power systems. Toyota is also making significant investments in R&D and manufacturing as well to further support hybrid engine development.

I might agree and be more hesitant if it was another brand, but I have some confidence in Toyota.

[ezcheese]

Toyota is also building an enormous solid state battery plant here in NC.

[apnk]

Yup ^^^ Toyota is a conservative company that’s why they haven’t totally jumped head first into total EV. Also their batteries are the old tech but super reliable NiMH batteries.

[dnslater]

Yup ^^^ Toyota is a conservative company that’s why they haven’t totally jumped head first into total EV. Also their batteries are the old tech but super reliable NiMH batteries.

They have started moving to Lithium Ion in some of their newer Prius models and others.... but no doubt only after a lot of testing.

Toyota has been slow to jump into EV, but no doubt their long history with electrification in hybrids will allow them to easily jump into that market once the market demand is there.

[hoppyjr]

I don’t see the EV as viable long term, at this point. Hybrids? Sure. Full EV? Only for some can it be an only vehicle. For most it’s a secondary vehicle or toy for those who can afford it.

I won’t get into the cost, damage, or environmental impact of mining and shipping the materials to make an EV. Suffice to say that just because something makes one feel good about their purchase doesn’t necessarily equate to actually making a difference.

I will say that we don’t have sufficient infrastructure to support the strong EV mandates in the USA. Heck, California couldn’t support its grid before EV’s happened, with rolling blackouts even 20 years ago.

I’m all for innovation and options, but the government needs to GTFO of this altogether.

Leave my gas stove alone too.

Now, get off my lawn!

[raf42]

We have two cars, both EV. One is six years old and has been in for service once (and that was not really needed, just wanted a safety check). Took it to Americas Tire for tires, once. Drove it from the Bay Area to Palm Springs with one stop, and have made many longs trips with it over the years. Charge mostly at home, and with rooftop solar, generally costs almost nothing. Total cost of ownership so far was basically the drive off price. Oh, and zero to sixty in 4'ish seconds is not bad, as is the instant power to get out of potential issues. Having no oil changes and less or no maintenance has been amazing.

Second EV replaced 10 year old Lexus Hybrid. While Hybrids from that era are not as good as the ones these days, it had almost zero issues too and the fact it was a hybrid was generally not noticeable. It was a great car for a decade and over 100k miles.

Don't disagree EV's still have environmental impact, but so do gas cars - and hybrids even a bit more since they are short range EV's plus gas. In some places that don't have much renewable energy, EV's are yes running off coal, etc so yep, that's worse or the same. EV battery recycling is improving and will more in the future, but no doubt they still have a significant environmental impact both pre and post production.

Totally agree there is not sufficient electrical infrastructure, and won't be for a long time. Also agree government mandates (especially with the necessary infrastructure to support them en masse so far off) are dumb and go too far.

If you want an EV great, they have plusses and minuses. if you don't want one that's great too.

[hoppyjr]

We have two cars, both EV. One is six years old and has been in for service once (and that was not really needed, just wanted a safety check). Took it to Americas Tire for tires, once. Drove it from the Bay Area to Palm Springs with one stop, and have made many longs trips with it over the years. Charge mostly at home, and with rooftop solar, generally costs almost nothing. Total cost of ownership so far was basically the drive off price. Oh, and zero to sixty in 4'ish seconds is not bad, as is the instant power to get out of potential issues. Having no oil changes and less or no maintenance has been amazing.

Second EV replaced 10 year old Lexus Hybrid. While Hybrids from that era are not as good as the ones these days, it had almost zero issues too and the fact it was a hybrid was generally not noticeable. It was a great car for a decade and over 100k miles.

Don't disagree EV's still have environmental impact, but so do gas cars - and hybrids even a bit more since they are short range EV's plus gas. In some places that don't have much renewable energy, EV's are yes running off coal, etc so yep, that's worse or the same. EV battery recycling is improving and will more in the future, but no doubt they still have a significant environmental impact both pre and post production.

Totally agree there is not sufficient electrical infrastructure, and won't be for a long time. Also agree government mandates (especially with the necessary infrastructure to support them en masse so far off) are dumb and go too far.

If you want an EV great, they have plusses and minuses. if you don't want one that's great too.

100%

Three good friends own Teslas as their second or third vehicle and love them. Another friend has for his only vehicle, but he works from home, doesn’t drive much, and his girl drives a regular car. He did experience issues with the cold weather.

With your own rooftop solar it sounds like a viable option.

[raf42]

We have two cars, both EV. One is six years old and has been in for service once (and that was not really needed, just wanted a safety check). Took it to Americas Tire for tires, once. Drove it from the Bay Area to Palm Springs with one stop, and have made many longs trips with it over the years. Charge mostly at home, and with rooftop solar, generally costs almost nothing. Total cost of ownership so far was basically the drive off price. Oh, and zero to sixty in 4'ish seconds is not bad, as is the instant power to get out of potential issues. Having no oil changes and less or no maintenance has been amazing.

Second EV replaced 10 year old Lexus Hybrid. While Hybrids from that era are not as good as the ones these days, it had almost zero issues too and the fact it was a hybrid was generally not noticeable. It was a great car for a decade and over 100k miles.

Don't disagree EV's still have environmental impact, but so do gas cars - and hybrids even a bit more since they are short range EV's plus gas. In some places that don't have much renewable energy, EV's are yes running off coal, etc so yep, that's worse or the same. EV battery recycling is improving and will more in the future, but no doubt they still have a significant environmental impact both pre and post production.

Totally agree there is not sufficient electrical infrastructure, and won't be for a long time. Also agree government mandates (especially with the necessary infrastructure to support them en masse so far off) are dumb and go too far.

If you want an EV great, they have plusses and minuses. if you don't want one that's great too.

100%

Three good friends own Teslas as their second or third vehicle and love them. Another friend has for his only vehicle, but he works from home, doesn’t drive much, and his girl drives a regular car. He did experience issues with the cold weather.

With your own rooftop solar it sounds like a viable option.

Good point about cold weather. EV's lose a lot of range when it's freezing, and charging rates can suffer too until (if) the battery warms up.

All that said, your 4Runner looks fantastic with all the mods, absolutely fantastic.

[hoppyjr]

We have two cars, both EV. One is six years old and has been in for service once (and that was not really needed, just wanted a safety check). Took it to Americas Tire for tires, once. Drove it from the Bay Area to Palm Springs with one stop, and have made many longs trips with it over the years. Charge mostly at home, and with rooftop solar, generally costs almost nothing. Total cost of ownership so far was basically the drive off price. Oh, and zero to sixty in 4'ish seconds is not bad, as is the instant power to get out of potential issues. Having no oil changes and less or no maintenance has been amazing.

Second EV replaced 10 year old Lexus Hybrid. While Hybrids from that era are not as good as the ones these days, it had almost zero issues too and the fact it was a hybrid was generally not noticeable. It was a great car for a decade and over 100k miles.

Don't disagree EV's still have environmental impact, but so do gas cars - and hybrids even a bit more since they are short range EV's plus gas. In some places that don't have much renewable energy, EV's are yes running off coal, etc so yep, that's worse or the same. EV battery recycling is improving and will more in the future, but no doubt they still have a significant environmental impact both pre and post production.

Totally agree there is not sufficient electrical infrastructure, and won't be for a long time. Also agree government mandates (especially with the necessary infrastructure to support them en masse so far off) are dumb and go too far.

If you want an EV great, they have plusses and minuses. if you don't want one that's great too.

100%

Three good friends own Teslas as their second or third vehicle and love them. Another friend has for his only vehicle, but he works from home, doesn’t drive much, and his girl drives a regular car. He did experience issues with the cold weather.

With your own rooftop solar it sounds like a viable option.

Good point about cold weather. EV's lose a lot of range when it's freezing, and charging rates can suffer too until (if) the battery warms up.

All that said, your 4Runner looks fantastic with all the mods, absolutely fantastic.

Thank you sir. It’s been a labor of love.

For anyone who may be interested, here is my build thread on the 4Runner forum: Hoppy’s build thread - 2022 ORP
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic? ... source=app

[dnslater]

Three good friends own Teslas as their second or third vehicle and love them. Another friend has for his only vehicle, but he works from home, doesn’t drive much, and his girl drives a regular car. He did experience issues with the cold weather.

With your own rooftop solar it sounds like a viable option.

EV's work best now if you can charge from home... and in 2 car households. My wife has an XC-40 EV as her only car and she loves it - but mainly charges in our garage. The 2-3 times a year that we need to go on road trips we will take my 4Runner. She saw a little range reduction over winter but not bad as hers has a heat pump. She drives a lot and it has increased our electric bill about $40-$50/month. I'm jealous that she never has to visit gas stations as I am there frequently in my Toyota.

The batteries aren't great environmentally from a manufacturing standpoint but better than an ICE when you look at cradle to grave... including the gas that an ICE will use over it's life time. The turning point for EV's will be when they can figure out how to make the batteries from something less impactful than Lithium which will happen.

[amckiwi]

ad241d39-269f-4f51-a673-69b072027ec7.jpeg

[zepp21]

I can’t get a 4Runner off of my brain, especially before the new generation comes out. I’ve spoken to at least 4 local dealers and the leases on these are absurd and dealers don’t seem to want to play ball.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hoppyjr]

I can’t get a 4Runner off of my brain, especially before the new generation comes out. I’ve spoken to at least 4 local dealers and the leases on these are absurd and dealers don’t seem to want to play ball.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is no “play ball” on these, they command MSRP pretty much everywhere. They are worth it.

Leasing these is never good, but if you’re able to purchase one, they tend to hold their value extremely well. It really is the last of the old-school stuff.

[HapaHapa]

I can’t get a 4Runner off of my brain, especially before the new generation comes out. I’ve spoken to at least 4 local dealers and the leases on these are absurd and dealers don’t seem to want to play ball.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Book a plane ticket to podunk, pick up pre-arranged 4Runner purchase, drive home.

[dnslater]

I can’t get a 4Runner off of my brain, especially before the new generation comes out. I’ve spoken to at least 4 local dealers and the leases on these are absurd and dealers don’t seem to want to play ball.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is no “play ball” on these, they command MSRP pretty much everywhere. They are worth it.

Leasing these is never good, but if you’re able to purchase one, they tend to hold their value extremely well. It really is the last of the old-school stuff.

Agreed it just doesn't make much sense to lease a vehicle that barely depreciates. 2-3 year old 4Runners sell for 75-80% of MSRP.

[ezcheese]

If you’re interested I would definitely suggest trying to source one before they’re all gone. That was what prompted us to get the 21 Land Cruiser and Tundra with the V8s when we did. Last of an era!
Call around to different dealers. We got ours from a dealer in Richmond Virginia who was willing to sell at MSRP. Worth the awful drive up I-95 for it.

[Ryeguy]

I can’t get a 4Runner off of my brain, especially before the new generation comes out. I’ve spoken to at least 4 local dealers and the leases on these are absurd and dealers don’t seem to want to play ball.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is no “play ball” on these, they command MSRP pretty much everywhere. They are worth it.

Leasing these is never good, but if you’re able to purchase one, they tend to hold their value extremely well. It really is the last of the old-school stuff.

Agreed it just doesn't make much sense to lease a vehicle that barely depreciates. 2-3 year old 4Runners sell for 75-80% of MSRP.

I traded in my 12 year old Tacoma for 60% of the purchase price. Simply unbelievable lack of depreciation.

Needless to say, I bought another.

[dnslater]

I can’t get a 4Runner off of my brain, especially before the new generation comes out. I’ve spoken to at least 4 local dealers and the leases on these are absurd and dealers don’t seem to want to play ball.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is no “play ball” on these, they command MSRP pretty much everywhere. They are worth it.

Leasing these is never good, but if you’re able to purchase one, they tend to hold their value extremely well. It really is the last of the old-school stuff.

Agreed it just doesn't make much sense to lease a vehicle that barely depreciates. 2-3 year old 4Runners sell for 75-80% of MSRP.

I traded in my 12 year old Tacoma for 60% of the purchase price. Simply unbelievable lack of depreciation.

Needless to say, I bought another.

I traded a 9 year old BMW wagon for my 4Runner. The BMW depreciated from a $55k MSRP to $7,500 and didn't even have 100k miles on it yet. The way Toyota trucks hold their value is really staggering.

[CGSshorty]

Speaking of holding value, has anyone taken a look at the prices on last generation Honda Fits? It’s crazy how much a low mileage one will go for.

[toxicavenger]

Speaking of holding value, has anyone taken a look at the prices on last generation Honda Fits? It’s crazy how much a low mileage one will go for.

We had a 2008 model and sold it 2 years later for over what we paid for it new. Crazy shit.

[bedlam]

I can’t get a 4Runner off of my brain, especially before the new generation comes out. I’ve spoken to at least 4 local dealers and the leases on these are absurd and dealers don’t seem to want to play ball.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is no “play ball” on these, they command MSRP pretty much everywhere. They are worth it.

Leasing these is never good, but if you’re able to purchase one, they tend to hold their value extremely well. It really is the last of the old-school stuff.

Agreed it just doesn't make much sense to lease a vehicle that barely depreciates. 2-3 year old 4Runners sell for 75-80% of MSRP.

I traded in my 12 year old Tacoma for 60% of the purchase price. Simply unbelievable lack of depreciation.

Needless to say, I bought another.

I don't know if it's the same in the US, but in Oz there is a Toyota tax. A bit like Rolex, the entry price is inflated but they hold that value so the turn-over price is solid.

When I bought my Isuzu in 2018 the equivalent Toyota (called the Prado here) was 20K more. Looking at current resale, that gap is still there. So there would have been no benefit in my tying up that extra 20K. My Isuzu has been flawless whilst I note Toyota have had a bunch of recalls.

Toyota have historically made good cars...they are no longer as good as they used to be but that hasn't impacted on the amount of kool-aid flowing around them. IMO Toyota peaked with the 80 series Landcruiser.

[dnslater]

Speaking of holding value, has anyone taken a look at the prices on last generation Honda Fits? It’s crazy how much a low mileage one will go for.

Funny as I just did a search yesterday. My youngest kid just got his license yesterday and wants to get a used manual hatchback or sedan. I was trying to steer him towards a fit but he doesn't like them. He is looking at old VW's and Audi's. Guess I will have some oil spots on my new driveway.

I don't know if it's the same in the US, but in Oz there is a Toyota tax. A bit like Rolex, the entry price is inflated but they hold that value so the turn-over price is solid.

When I bought my Isuzu in 2018 the equivalent Toyota (called the Prado here) was 20K more. Looking at current resale, that gap is still there. So there would have been no benefit in my tying up that extra 20K. My Isuzu has been flawless whilst I note Toyota have had a bunch of recalls.

Toyota have historically made good cars...they are no longer as good as they used to be but that hasn't impacted on the amount of kool-aid flowing around them. IMO Toyota peaked with the 80 series Landcruiser.

90's Toyota/Honda are always discussed as having peaked because they were reliable AND this was before cars started being filled with technology... and Toyota/Honda kept it simpler than the equivalent GM, Ford, etc... who liked all kinds of electronic buttons. By the numbers, Toyota/Lexus are still king in reliability compared to the competition.... its just that consumers demand a lot more stuff in their cars which creates more opportunities for issues.

[bedlam]

Speaking of holding value, has anyone taken a look at the prices on last generation Honda Fits? It’s crazy how much a low mileage one will go for.

Funny as I just did a search yesterday. My youngest kid just got his license yesterday and wants to get a used manual hatchback or sedan. I was trying to steer him towards a fit but he doesn't like them. He is looking at old VW's and Audi's. Guess I will have some oil spots on my new driveway.

I don't know if it's the same in the US, but in Oz there is a Toyota tax. A bit like Rolex, the entry price is inflated but they hold that value so the turn-over price is solid.

When I bought my Isuzu in 2018 the equivalent Toyota (called the Prado here) was 20K more. Looking at current resale, that gap is still there. So there would have been no benefit in my tying up that extra 20K. My Isuzu has been flawless whilst I note Toyota have had a bunch of recalls.

Toyota have historically made good cars...they are no longer as good as they used to be but that hasn't impacted on the amount of kool-aid flowing around them. IMO Toyota peaked with the 80 series Landcruiser.

90's Toyota/Honda are always discussed as having peaked because they were reliable AND this was before cars started being filled with technology... and Toyota/Honda kept it simpler than the equivalent GM, Ford, etc... who liked all kinds of electronic buttons. By the numbers, Toyota/Lexus are still king in reliability compared to the competition.... its just that consumers demand a lot more stuff in their cars which creates more opportunities for issues.

Yeah, I expect my Isuzu will be the last 'dumb' car I own. Everything is 'smart' now and that just means a ton more stuff that can go wrong.