Right out of the gate.....New Sub $20,000!

Discussion of Rolex Watches.
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matt.wu
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Re: Right out of the gate.....New Sub $20,000!

Post by matt.wu » Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:22 pm

Axelay2003 wrote:
Panerai7 wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:15 pm
Axelay2003 wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:57 pm
SoCal C4S wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:28 pm
I’m fairly certain mine will go out the door with plastics intact. Not sure if I’ll be able to get the warranty card left blank, but I’ll try.
So is that the new protocol from Rolex. You purchase directly from ADs and they remove the plastics to make sure you don’t resell, BNIB?
Yes and fill in the card and register with Rolex
Wow, that sucks IMO.
It’s Rolex’s solution to a problem they created: artificial supply shortage.
:htfu:

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Re: Right out of the gate.....New Sub $20,000!

Post by SoCal C4S » Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:36 pm

matt.wu wrote:
Axelay2003 wrote:
Panerai7 wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:15 pm
Axelay2003 wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:57 pm
SoCal C4S wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:28 pm
I’m fairly certain mine will go out the door with plastics intact. Not sure if I’ll be able to get the warranty card left blank, but I’ll try.
So is that the new protocol from Rolex. You purchase directly from ADs and they remove the plastics to make sure you don’t resell, BNIB?
Yes and fill in the card and register with Rolex
Wow, that sucks IMO.
It’s Rolex’s solution to a problem they created: artificial supply shortage.
Exactly. But they play the game of Supply and demand very well. It keeps the masses ready to pounce, and we do with bated breath. Ever single time.

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Re: Right out of the gate.....New Sub $20,000!

Post by Panerai7 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:57 am

Seppia wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:47 am
The new cards don’t have a name on them I think.
Both the OP and the BB58 I just purchased had the cards activated with an app by the sales person.
DSW is nothing. What goes on in Other parts of the world like Asia (not in the honorable Japan of course) or UK with Asian connections is even crazier.
Who are all these dealers with 20-30 Hulks BNIB and with stickers?
The ADs carry new watches across the street to their buddys’ stores to sell at 2X.

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Rolex didn’t create anything. They’re making the same amount of watches as before. It’s the emerging markets who used to starve and work for a bowl of rice with cockroaches on top are now wealthy and want Rolex because we keep buying MIC/Made Somewhere shit because it’s cheap and we are making them wealthy.

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Re: Right out of the gate.....New Sub $20,000!

Post by JBZ » Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:28 am

matt.wu wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:22 pm
Axelay2003 wrote:
Panerai7 wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:15 pm
Axelay2003 wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:57 pm
SoCal C4S wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:28 pm
I’m fairly certain mine will go out the door with plastics intact. Not sure if I’ll be able to get the warranty card left blank, but I’ll try.
So is that the new protocol from Rolex. You purchase directly from ADs and they remove the plastics to make sure you don’t resell, BNIB?
Yes and fill in the card and register with Rolex
Wow, that sucks IMO.
It’s Rolex’s solution to a problem they created: artificial supply shortage.
I have a tendency to agree. Like it or not, Rolex is the most desirable luxury watch in the world - lots of people want them and will accept no substitute (even if it's a watch that is objectively just as good or better). Right now it's incredibly difficult to get the desirable models, especially the Sub, GMT, and Daytona. So people who can get them know they can either sell them directly or turn them around to a grey dealer for a profit, and that dealer will be able to sell them for even more of a profit. And I think it will happen no matter what safeguards Rolex puts into place - the market is just too large to police effectively.

If Rolex wants to fix the issue, they need to start producing their more desirable models in greater numbers. That makes it easier for everyone to buy one, which makes it less likely buyers will flip them for profit. Then maybe the greys will go back to selling them for less that MSRP rather than thousands of dollars more.

I guess Rolex could try to move to a boutique/online model like Omega in an attempt to keep better control, but that hasn't stopped BNIB Omegas from being available on the grey market. They're just available at more reasonable prices because there's no Omega shortage (of course, given the relatively popularity of Omega vs. Rolex, Rolex would most likely have to produce a lot more watches to keep up with demand).
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matt.wu
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Re: Right out of the gate.....New Sub $20,000!

Post by matt.wu » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:11 am

Seppia wrote:
Panerai7 wrote:It’s the emerging markets who used to starve and work for a bowl of rice with cockroaches on top are now wealthy and want Rolex because we keep buying MIC/Made Somewhere shit because it’s cheap and we are making them wealthy.
Wow that’s an incredibly shitty post Art
Par for the course with him.
:htfu:

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aikiman44
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Re: Right out of the gate.....New Sub $20,000!

Post by aikiman44 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:13 am

Using those laborers is making who wealthy?
Those who received the $72,000,000,000 (that’s trillion) tax cut, that’s who.
"We'd better synchronize our watches."

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Re: Right out of the gate.....New Sub $20,000!

Post by Panerai7 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:23 am

Seppia wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:04 am
Panerai7 wrote:It’s the emerging markets who used to starve and work for a bowl of rice with cockroaches on top are now wealthy and want Rolex because we keep buying MIC/Made Somewhere shit because it’s cheap and we are making them wealthy.
Wow that’s an incredibly shitty post Art
Oy vey, I didn’t mean anything derogatory by it. Perhaps I should have said minimum wages instead of bowl of rice with bugs. I thought it would add color and was funny. Was watching TV the other day, I think it was Thai food and they were showing water bugs of all different kinds eaten. I thought to myself that doesn’t look like my favorite Pad Thai that I love and eat at least once a week. Never mind....
The point is that folks in emerging markets are making more money than before. Companies around the world are outsourcing labor/production. More and more skilled educated workers are required and command higher incomes. So Rolex doesn’t produce less watches. There are just more people who can afford a Rolex watch.

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Re: Right out of the gate.....New Sub $20,000!

Post by 93 Turbo » Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:05 am

F that, this watch is around $13.5K AUS MSRP. If you can get one.
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Re: Right out of the gate.....New Sub $20,000!

Post by hoppyjr » Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:07 am

Panerai7 wrote:
Seppia wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:04 am
Panerai7 wrote:It’s the emerging markets who used to starve and work for a bowl of rice with cockroaches on top are now wealthy and want Rolex because we keep buying MIC/Made Somewhere shit because it’s cheap and we are making them wealthy.
Wow that’s an incredibly shitty post Art
Oy vey, I didn’t mean anything derogatory by it. Perhaps I should have said minimum wages instead of bowl of rice with bugs. I thought it would add color and was funny. Was watching TV the other day, I think it was Thai food and they were showing water bugs of all different kinds eaten. I thought to myself that doesn’t look like my favorite Pad Thai that I love and eat at least once a week. Never mind....
The point is that folks in emerging markets are making more money than before. Companies around the world are outsourcing labor/production. More and more skilled educated workers are required and command higher incomes. So Rolex doesn’t produce less watches. There are just more people who can afford a Rolex watch.
I knew what you meant Art, and it wasn’t picking at anyone. Andrea is just sensitive because he’s had cockroach gnocchi before. ;-)

You’re saying people, in these emerging markets, who used to work their ass off for a bowl of nothing are finding wealth and seeking luxury goods, like Rolex. It’s true.

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aikiman44
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Re: Right out of the gate.....New Sub $20,000!

Post by aikiman44 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:11 am

I’d say more middle and upper class people are appreciating watches and swelling the Rolex ranks.
"We'd better synchronize our watches."

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Re: Right out of the gate.....New Sub $20,000!

Post by ericf4 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:29 am

that price makes me glad i got what i want and havent bought in a year and a half.....Thats just nuts for a SS base Sub,,,,,,
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Re: Right out of the gate.....New Sub $20,000!

Post by HapaHapa » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:04 pm

Panerai7 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:23 am
Seppia wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:04 am
Panerai7 wrote:It’s the emerging markets who used to starve and work for a bowl of rice with cockroaches on top are now wealthy and want Rolex because we keep buying MIC/Made Somewhere shit because it’s cheap and we are making them wealthy.
Wow that’s an incredibly shitty post Art
Oy vey, I didn’t mean anything derogatory by it. Perhaps I should have said minimum wages instead of bowl of rice with bugs. I thought it would add color and was funny. Was watching TV the other day, I think it was Thai food and they were showing water bugs of all different kinds eaten. I thought to myself that doesn’t look like my favorite Pad Thai that I love and eat at least once a week. Never mind....
The point is that folks in emerging markets are making more money than before. Companies around the world are outsourcing labor/production. More and more skilled educated workers are required and command higher incomes. So Rolex doesn’t produce less watches. There are just more people who can afford a Rolex watch.
Water bugs are crunchy. I like crunchy.
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Re: Right out of the gate.....New Sub $20,000!

Post by CarloDWC » Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:36 pm

This could be amusing if it wasn't sad... 20K for a watch? I wonder how much of that is profit. 15K? More? whatever... Rolex was not on my radar but it just moved out of the Galaxy for me, out of reach of the most powerful telescope... :lol:

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Re: Right out of the gate.....New Sub $20,000!

Post by dnslater » Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:50 pm

hoppyjr wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:07 am

You’re saying people, in these emerging markets, who used to work their ass off for a bowl of nothing are finding wealth and seeking luxury goods, like Rolex. It’s true.
Yeah, I don’t think Rolex ever reduced supply at all... it is just that due to emerging markets, there is more demand, and being owned by a foundation, they have no drive to expand production. No shareholders to answer to.... and plenty of profits to inflate salaries of the executives.

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Re: Right out of the gate.....New Sub $20,000!

Post by Ryeguy » Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:47 pm

dnslater wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:50 pm
hoppyjr wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:07 am

You’re saying people, in these emerging markets, who used to work their ass off for a bowl of nothing are finding wealth and seeking luxury goods, like Rolex. It’s true.
Yeah, I don’t think Rolex ever reduced supply at all... it is just that due to emerging markets, there is more demand, and being owned by a foundation, they have no drive to expand production. No shareholders to answer to.... and plenty of profits to inflate salaries of the executives.
The irony is the actual profit recognized by Rolex probably hasn’t increased by a significant enough amount to make Rolex executives extremely wealthy.

Yes, Rolex has increased their prices annually, but their raw materials costs, labor costs, and taxes have also likely risen.

The actual consumer cost increase seems to be mostly due to these grey market sellers who are able to somehow snap up available whatever available supply the AD has and further inflates the selling price. It is almost like the AD is now the “middleman” in the supply chain (and there are potentially multiple other “middlemen” - AKA “straw men purchasers” between the AD and the “trusted seller” we deal with, each needing their cut).

One alternative Rolex could consider is to simply raise the MSRP to $20k for a Sub. It seems this is the price the market is willing to pay, so why let some grey market seller make 100% profit?

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Re: Right out of the gate.....New Sub $20,000!

Post by Henryj » Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:37 pm

I think Ginault raised their prices, too.
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Re: Right out of the gate.....New Sub $20,000!

Post by flyskate » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:17 am

Too bad really, I like the brand, and was looking for a reasonably priced date just, looking at the Omega Globemaster instead, at least I can get a 25% discount off retail, and it's half the price of the DJ.
Stephen

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Re: Right out of the gate.....New Sub $20,000!

Post by Torrid » Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:45 pm

Ryeguy wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:47 pm
dnslater wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:50 pm
hoppyjr wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:07 am

You’re saying people, in these emerging markets, who used to work their ass off for a bowl of nothing are finding wealth and seeking luxury goods, like Rolex. It’s true.
Yeah, I don’t think Rolex ever reduced supply at all... it is just that due to emerging markets, there is more demand, and being owned by a foundation, they have no drive to expand production. No shareholders to answer to.... and plenty of profits to inflate salaries of the executives.
The irony is the actual profit recognized by Rolex probably hasn’t increased by a significant enough amount to make Rolex executives extremely wealthy.

Yes, Rolex has increased their prices annually, but their raw materials costs, labor costs, and taxes have also likely risen.

The actual consumer cost increase seems to be mostly due to these grey market sellers who are able to somehow snap up available whatever available supply the AD has and further inflates the selling price. It is almost like the AD is now the “middleman” in the supply chain (and there are potentially multiple other “middlemen” - AKA “straw men purchasers” between the AD and the “trusted seller” we deal with, each needing their cut).

One alternative Rolex could consider is to simply raise the MSRP to $20k for a Sub. It seems this is the price the market is willing to pay, so why let some grey market seller make 100% profit?
I get that material prices have went up, but enough to make it $20k for a stainless steel diver? I know I’m not the projected buyer, but I never thought I’d see the day it would happen, no matter how fast their prices have increased.

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Re: Right out of the gate.....New Sub $20,000!

Post by Selym » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:06 pm

Ef Rolex. IMO, it's none of their business what you do with the watch after you buy it.

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Re: Right out of the gate.....New Sub $20,000!

Post by Ryeguy » Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:50 pm

Torrid wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:45 pm
Ryeguy wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:47 pm
dnslater wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:50 pm
hoppyjr wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:07 am

You’re saying people, in these emerging markets, who used to work their ass off for a bowl of nothing are finding wealth and seeking luxury goods, like Rolex. It’s true.
Yeah, I don’t think Rolex ever reduced supply at all... it is just that due to emerging markets, there is more demand, and being owned by a foundation, they have no drive to expand production. No shareholders to answer to.... and plenty of profits to inflate salaries of the executives.
The irony is the actual profit recognized by Rolex probably hasn’t increased by a significant enough amount to make Rolex executives extremely wealthy.

Yes, Rolex has increased their prices annually, but their raw materials costs, labor costs, and taxes have also likely risen.

The actual consumer cost increase seems to be mostly due to these grey market sellers who are able to somehow snap up available whatever available supply the AD has and further inflates the selling price. It is almost like the AD is now the “middleman” in the supply chain (and there are potentially multiple other “middlemen” - AKA “straw men purchasers” between the AD and the “trusted seller” we deal with, each needing their cut).

One alternative Rolex could consider is to simply raise the MSRP to $20k for a Sub. It seems this is the price the market is willing to pay, so why let some grey market seller make 100% profit?
I get that material prices have went up, but enough to make it $20k for a stainless steel diver? I know I’m not the projected buyer, but I never thought I’d see the day it would happen, no matter how fast their prices have increased.
That’s the point, though. The Rolex suggested retail for the stainless Sub isn’t $20k, but that is the asking price for one from the non-AD sellers who seem to be the only source.

The extra profit isn’t going to Rolex. It is going to the new layer in the retail supply chain, the forum “trusted seller”.

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Re: Right out of the gate.....New Sub $20,000!

Post by JBZ » Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:57 am

Ryeguy wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:50 pm
Torrid wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:45 pm
Ryeguy wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:47 pm
dnslater wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:50 pm
hoppyjr wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:07 am

You’re saying people, in these emerging markets, who used to work their ass off for a bowl of nothing are finding wealth and seeking luxury goods, like Rolex. It’s true.
Yeah, I don’t think Rolex ever reduced supply at all... it is just that due to emerging markets, there is more demand, and being owned by a foundation, they have no drive to expand production. No shareholders to answer to.... and plenty of profits to inflate salaries of the executives.
The irony is the actual profit recognized by Rolex probably hasn’t increased by a significant enough amount to make Rolex executives extremely wealthy.

Yes, Rolex has increased their prices annually, but their raw materials costs, labor costs, and taxes have also likely risen.

The actual consumer cost increase seems to be mostly due to these grey market sellers who are able to somehow snap up available whatever available supply the AD has and further inflates the selling price. It is almost like the AD is now the “middleman” in the supply chain (and there are potentially multiple other “middlemen” - AKA “straw men purchasers” between the AD and the “trusted seller” we deal with, each needing their cut).

One alternative Rolex could consider is to simply raise the MSRP to $20k for a Sub. It seems this is the price the market is willing to pay, so why let some grey market seller make 100% profit?
I get that material prices have went up, but enough to make it $20k for a stainless steel diver? I know I’m not the projected buyer, but I never thought I’d see the day it would happen, no matter how fast their prices have increased.
That’s the point, though. The Rolex suggested retail for the stainless Sub isn’t $20k, but that is the asking price for one from the non-AD sellers who seem to be the only source.

The extra profit isn’t going to Rolex. It is going to the new layer in the retail supply chain, the forum “trusted seller”.
It’s interesting, because if you go on TRF, there’s a lot of chatter about how this is just capitalism and the “trusted sellers” are just charging what the market will support.

While I agree to a point, the TS have basically become ticket scalpers. Their connections, ability to buy in volume, and ability to (maybe?) pay inflated prices are squeezing all but the most well connected retail buyer out of the market, all so they can turn around and sell at super inflated prices to the few people who have more money than patience or brains.

So I think it’s more than just the markets. There’s definitely some unfair (or at least quasi-unfair) competition going on. I’m sure this isn’t what Rolex intended, but they need to do something to counteract it or it’s just going to keep happening.

I should clarify that it’s not all trusted sellers. More of the established grays like DSW et al.
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Re: Right out of the gate.....New Sub $20,000!

Post by jimyritz » Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:29 am

If Rolex wanted to address the problem then they should up the supply to ADs of basic models, Subs, Explorers, etc- It's ok to maintain premium pricing and limited demand for exclusive models. Provide ample supply to the ADs and allow to them to sell to anyone off the street- not just VIPs.

Rolex is putting their ADS in a tough spot- in some cases they are buying watches off the street to see if they can trace the serial number back to specific ADs. Any person can walk into a Tourneau and buy a $20,000 Panerai or $30,000 Breguet but can't buy a $6500 Rolex Exp 1.

Personally, I've been thinking about selling my Hulk but want a 41MM No date but no one has one- I'm on a few lists :(...

So I guess we'll see. Certainly not buying from a grey mkt dealer although I could trade my hulk for a pepsi or batman..hmmmm

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Re: Right out of the gate.....New Sub $20,000!

Post by toxicavenger » Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:54 pm

Selym wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:06 pm
Ef Rolex. IMO, it's none of their business what you do with the watch after you buy it.
true that

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Re: Right out of the gate.....New Sub $20,000!

Post by Ryeguy » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:37 am

I think the tracking of serial numbers is a bit of a fool’s errand. If a Rolex investigator finds a Sub on the secondary market and traces it back to a specific AD, it is only a singular event and not likely enough to cause a pulling of the franchise. They would have to find multiple examples (I would think) to take this action.

I think the only reasonable action Rolex could take is to find ways to make it less optimal for the consumer to purchase outside the AD process.

For example, make it so only the original buyer and appropriately registered secondary buyers are covered under warranty. The original buyer must fill out their registration form at the AD (with an AD unique code so Rolex can know exactly who sold the watch). If the watch is sold, Rolex could strongly urge sellers to do so at an AD (like a firearms transfer). Rolex could offer a authentication service (confirming the watch was not stolen, etc.) and transfer the warranty from owner A to owner B.

It would be a PITA, but Rolex already has the infrastructure in place with a global AD network, a robust serialization process, and a lockdown on service parts availability.

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Re: Right out of the gate.....New Sub $20,000!

Post by sierra11b » Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:44 pm

Why doesn’t Rolex buy from DSW and the others? Seems like it would instantly expose the crooked ADs.

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